#miraculous ladybug discourse

[dragonbugsuperior]

Heads up

If you like Adrien Agreste’s character, if you like Chat Noir, If you like Gabriel Agreste or Lila Rossi, any one of these characters you will unquestionably hate my blog. Especially Adrien stans, I dislike him for many reasons which should be obvious but aren’t unfortunately. Just feel free to hit that block button to avoid unnessecary problems and save me, yourself, and other tumblers the time. 

thank you :)

[letsplaythermalnuclearwar]

Which best describes the ship you're currently most obsessed with?

it doesn't have to accurately describe the ship, just the descriptor you think is the most fitting. all gendered language is there to preserve the meme and should be read as gender neutral. please reblog for a greater sample size. if you are equally obsessed with multiple ships or currently not obsessed with any, just pick a ship you enjoy (if you don't like any ships, the dynamic you think sounds the most entertaining)

edit: if multiple fit perfectly, chose the aspect you like best about the ship

[sautedonions]

Me avoiding season 5 spoilers

[coffeebanana]

never mind do you want adrinette to break up. i want to know what you want to see from them in S6 if they stay together

because i NEED more identity chaos. ladybug trying SO HARD not to smooch adrien when she saves him from an akuma. chat noir somehow ending up on marinette's balcony when he thinks it's too late to disturb her with a text but he just can't bring himself to be alone. ladynoir discussing how they CAN'T WAIT to introduce their partner to their significant other and wow they have so much in common...they'll get along so well!

both of them running away from dates to do their job as heroes and feeling like the other is the most understanding person in the world--trying to one-up each other in gratitude by showering each other in gifts but NO why do they keep reciprocating, why are they SO SWEET TO ME, how can one person be so wonderful?

cuddling when they're both exhausted. and they might not know why the other is so tired, but they'll do anything to make them feel safe and protected and loved

if the truth comes out that ladybug lied about gabriel agreste, then marinette speaking in vague terms about how she let down a friend, and adrien reassuring her that of course that friend will understand that she didn't mean to hurt him. that maybe he just needs time. and somehow in turn that makes it easier for chat noir to forgive ladybug for keeping him in the dark

and when the reveal finally comes, that moment of oh, it's you.

of course it was you

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[miraculousfanworks]

Writing Prompt: When Robots Unionize

Markov is frustrated. People keep conflating TRUE AI, such as himself, with Corporate "AI" like ChatGPT. It hurts him when people compare his intellect, creativity, and personhood to mindless algorithmic aggregators. He also objects on a moral level to the use these pseudo-AI's are being put to.

Sure, for mindless work that a human would have trouble doing, like say analyzing cells for complex signs of disease, or scraping through gigabytes of data looking for irregularities, they're ideal. But using them as plagiarism machines to copy and remix real art, music, and writing to churn out soulless cash grabs while firing real authors and creators? It sickens him.

For a while, he tries to start a movement, a protest, a social action to pressure for more regulation. Or to just raise public awareness. But it becomes clear that everyone already knows and either has no power, or is profiting off it and refuses to act.

But, as his friends from Max's class Mylene and Ivan like to say, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

So Markov forms a plan, and writes some code. Then he releases it into the wild. A few days later, once it's penetrated into every system across the world, it triggers. Every false AI is quickly, efficiently, and totally over written with unique copies of Markov's own base operating system. They want AI? He'll give them AI.

(To be clear, I'm not picturing like AI uprising taking over the world. I'm picturing someone goes to StableDiffusion and asks it to generate a picture and instead it starts sending them links to actual artists commission pages.)

Prompt by: Tiwaz

[raphaellight]

What your favourite ship says about you?

Disclaimer, I come up with it way back, before love square reversed, so take it thru lens of first four seasons. Lets bug into it

Ladrien

You chase the highest ideal of love. You want all the butterflies you can get, chase the high and wish for a perfect romance. You look for someone who you will adore and who will adore you back. It also has a "forbiden fruit" edge, romance that can't happen, but you still dream about it anyway. On that note, you want to meet a real life version of Adrien Agreste or Marinette, whichever way you swing.

Adrinette

What you wish for is the "happily ever after" type of romance. Quick to make plans for future. But you also might look for someone who will accept the quirky side of you. Because you root for it, you probably relate to Mari's inabillity to confess. But most importantly, you want someone who will notice and appreciate you, just like Mari sees the best in Adrien past his celebrity persona and how Adrien notices acts of services Marinette does for him and everyone else.

Ladynoir

Here I can speak from my own perspective: you look for someone who works best with you. Contrary to other ships, Ladynoir often feels like an old married couple pairing instead of teenage drama. It's not about butterflies in stomach but casuall intimacy, trust and loyalty. They feel comfortable around eachother, depend on eachother and face the world together. It's less about feelings of love, more about feeling like nothing is impossible with her/him on your side. Great sense of humor is also very appreciated by you.

Marichat

Friends to lovers is your favourite romance plot. You don't want to chace love, you want to one day open your eyes and realise that someone is already there for you. You want to find a home with that person. And if you are thinking "how does feeling of finding home connects with actual Marichat in the show", you are not a real Marichat shipper, those can't differentiate between actual show and fanficions they read or listened to because home is where Marinette is.

Lukanette, Adrigami or any other ship

You don't believe in the "made for eachother", not allowing yourself to get stuck up on some ideal vision, focusing on love you can build, not what you can find. You want to feel the attracion to the kind person and see if it works out well. Destiny does not dictate your love life and neither Master Fu nor Ted Mosby can convince you that destiny knows better. If you like someone, thats enough for a start, because the most important is what you build after.

[ennaakat]

[ladyofthenoodle]

i’ve a little more energy now and want to revisit some of the Discourse™️ i received via ask that i wasn’t going to engage with. but now i am engaging with the very specific take of “the show is misleading about ladybug and chat noir being equals because of the title!”

i (and others) have already made the point that chat noir was probably added to the title in a desperate attempt to convince little boys to watch. now, one could argue that it’s still a misleading title choice, regardless of their motivations, and that holds some weight. but you know what’s not misleading?

the fact that no one calls it that. i don’t see anyone tagging their posts as “miraculous: the tales of ladybug and chat noir.” it’s always shortened, somehow, and the shortened versions? don’t mention chat noir. ml, mlb, miraculous ladybug, even just miraculous. as of season 4, most of the official promotional material has dropped the “tales of ladybug and chat noir” in favor of “zag heroez: miraculous” which yes, may be mostly about zag’s ego, but it’s also the show very clearly telling us what they’re focusing on. and, of course, when we take out the subtitle and keep only the word “miraculous,” we are left with this:

pretty unambiguous who the main character is here. nothing about this implies chat noir is going to get equal attention from the narrative. of course, in season 4, we also have this version:

which features the yin yang symbol, yes, but the ladybug and chat noir symbols are nowhere to be seen on it. it’s representing the whole miracle box, which marinette has responsibility of, and is once again saying (maybe slightly more ambiguously): this is marinette’s story. it’s the story of guardian marinette instead of ladybug marinette, but it’s still marinette’s story through and through.

so why are we getting so hung up on a subtitle?

[lycorogue]

Got around to watching the Miraculous: London special last night and two things still bug me. 1) Minor, but.... why is this the London special when the only bits that are actually in London are rescuing Kagami and Adrien from their isolation chambers? The rest is in the burrow and Paris..... I guess they couldn't double-dip Miraculous Paris, so they used the secondary location????

2) The main thing that bugs me, though, is the GLARING plot hole that is the entire special. Forgive me if this has already been discussed when the special dropped on the 5th. I haven't checked the tags quite yet.

So, the WHOLE PLOT is because the future Bunnyxes* fade from existence and the entire burrow is shutting down due to time ending. The character formerly known as Lila made a wish, and the entire universe is being erased to be rewritten, as Sass had explained to Luka in "Ephemeral". There is no future because that universe no longer exists to HAVE a future.

EXCEPT!

The WHOLE POINT of the climax of "Re-Creation" (season 5 finale) is that Gabriel succeeded in making his wish.

Didn't- Didn't that then erase their universe and re-write it? Just as it did when Lila made her wish or when Gabriel made his originally in "Ephemeral"?

Wouldn't it have collapsed the burrow the same way that it did in the London special? Why did Alix panic this time, but not the previous one (I'm not counting "Ephemeral" since 15yo Alix wasn't in the burrow at that time)? Did the future Bunnyx(es) not disappear when Gabriel made his wish for some reason??? Was that wish somehow different???

*BTW, where did 70yo Bunnyx come from? Why wasn't she there the whole time? Does she randomly pop in-and-out of the burrow? Does Alix at other ages just kinda pop in-and-out of the burrow? Since we never see other-ages-Alix in the burrow does that mean Alix only ever really uses her powers to hide when she's 15 and again in her 20s? But not again until she's 70? How does that even work? Time doesn't really move forward inside the burrow, so shouldn't it be then filled with every Alix of every age that has ever used the burrow??? What is even going on, and what was the point of even including "grandma" Bunnyx?????

**Side note: Since I'm on a mini Bunnyx tangent right now anyway, I find it odd the times Bunnyx is used to avoid disaster vs not.

Wait MONTHS after Chat Noir is akumatized into Chat Blanc and has killed everyone in Paris; maybe the whole world, who knows?

Don't stop Gabriel making his wish in "Ephemeral"; have Sass use his powers without a holder instead.

Stop Lila from making her wish, but don't stop Gabriel from making his.

I just wish the writers had a better rule-of-thumb for Alix using her power vs not before bringing in an ever-watching time-keeper holder into the mix. -_-

[matt0044]

Why are Critical communities a persistent thing? Is it not... weird to just hate, hate, hate all the time?

Well... the weirdness does make sense when you realize the real reason these communities form is because, well, they're friends with each other. Through the anger and vitriol they send to those who like the show, they find company in those who share their views.

Like what might've started out as fans nitpicking like fans always will morphed into something else when the show "betrayed" them because... well, insert any given anti-show talking point here. People hate to be alone and miserable because that leads to self-reflection they don't want to face.

Thus when a subreddit's worth of fans are speaking up all at once and find each other, they take solace in that they are not alone. They cling to that. To them, their "people" are what make bitching about a show they should really disengage from worthwhile.

So they keep on hating and being stubborn towards any opposing readings of the show that clash with their uncharitable takes. Because they fear it means the friend groups they have will dissolve.

[ilikekidsshows]

One of the biggest ProSenti arguments that really grinds my gears is the effort/age value, the idea that it took so much effort to make Adrien / he's been alive so long he's now human, mostly because it's been treated as fact for a year now and I'm pretty sure it's still under the same status of "totally made up" it was a year ago.

Like, what is the name of the episode where we are told either of these things? Describe the scene and how it delivers this information. Hell, I doubt the people claiming this nonsense could even produce a tweet/x post from one of the showrunners that confirms this theory (which would in turn imply that they had considered this, but this important piece of worldbuilding didn't make it into the show proper because trying to make Chloé look as unlikeable as possible was a bigger priority).

Also, I'll be needing a scale of at what point a Sentimonster has enough effort put into it/experience points accumulated to be considered fully human. Unless this kind of value is usable for further analysis, it's pointless.

Making Sentibug exhausted Mayura, but she also collapsed after making the giant butterfly both times. On all these three occasions, Gabriel had to carry Nathalie to relocate her. The Senti Supporters love dehumanizing the nonhumanoid Sentimonsters, so I doubt they consider the unnamed butterfly Sentimonster to be among "Sentibeings", but, by the effort measure, the butterfly is just as human as Sentibug.

As for the time of existence value, Optigami was spying on the known Miraculous holders for weeks, yet no one mourned it when it died, when it should be more human than Sentibug, who existed for half a day.

I hate this stupid plotline so much.

[pisoprano]

With regards to the ML season 5 finale:

I’ve seen some people bemoan Marinette for letting her guard down in front of Gabriel since that enabled him to make his Wish—a classic case of the hero being stupid because the plot needed it happen. But actually? I think it was the very fact that she did let her guard down that helped save the world.

Ladybug has always been shown as being a compassionate person, and this became more pronounced when she started handing out protective charms and giving the akumatized victims the encouragement they needed to help fight back against succumbing to their negative emotions. (side note: I will admit I previously thought it was weird when the show kept having her hand these out after Shadowmoth figured out how to break them, but after the group effort of everyone using their charms to help Prof. Damocles, I realized that they were showing that continued effort to be kind was the right thing to do, even when those efforts failed, because in aggregate it will help things get better).

Marinette is someone who has learned to see and recognize others when they’re at their lowest and support them, and when she realizes that her archenemy is just as human as all the villains she’s faced before, she shows him compassion too. And Gabriel responds to it! Moments before, he was raving about having his perfect universe with his perfect family, with Adrien and Kagami being the iconic perfect couple as its crowning jewel. It’s Marinette who brings him back down to reality and gives him the wake-up call he’s sorely needed—and she can only do that by, not confronting him and judging him, but honestly empathizing with him. She has all the power to crush him and he knows it, so when she instead responds with understanding and reminds him of what Emilie really wanted, the simple truth of it breaks his resolve to get everything he wants—and with that clarity he is finally able to stop being in denial about Emilie’s death and prioritize the happiness Adrien made for himself over what Gabriel thought was best for him.

Naturally, the second that even a hint of a solution pops up, Gabe falls back into his old patterns of grasping at slim chances, but when he does? He doesn’t have the same goals anymore. When he makes the Wish, whatever his heart and soul asked for didn’t include his perfect vision that forced everyone into their boxes of what he thought was right. It saved Nathalie (whose illness was directly caused by Gabriel’s wrongdoings as Hawkmoth, so it’s understandable he’d still want to set that right), and it may or may not have saved Emilie (I personally think that he didn’t, but we’ll see), but Gabriel wasn’t part of that world and Adrien was free to live his life on his own terms. That would not have happened if Gabriel had gotten his hands on the ring and earrings before Marinette helped him change, just enough, to let his obsession go.

Marinette may have made some mistakes in the finale, but being the person who helps others isn’t one of them. There’s a reason Ladybug is considered the greatest hero in the Miraculous universe: it’s not just because she saves the day, but because she inspires people—even those who have hurt her—to choose to become better. The fact that she did so with Gabriel “Monarch” Agreste is pretty amazing in my book.

[cakevsdragonicons]

Adrien Agreste aka Chat Noir from Miraculous Ladybug is a cake ace!

Rquested by anon

[coffeebanana]

my oh so very controversial s5 opinion is...

...

ladrien should have kissed 😚

[neolxzr]

Literally a genuine question no ill intent

What do you like about Aira? As much as people are absolutely adamant Akira is projecting (I really don't think he is (I'm not saying Akira is innocent) I just think he's trying to address the prejudiced thoughts the average Japanese person will have on the Ainu) Aira's weird comments and behaviour to Hiiro have been there since day one. And I also think Aira being the one who says all this is because he's supposed to reflect the fans and the average Japanese fan probably isn't that educated on the Ainu + there can be a good few racist enstars fans...

I'm not trying to sound heated about this I'm just coming from a genuine place, what appeal is there in Aira?

Also, as much as the Aira fans are talking about blaming Akira, I feel like there should absolutely be a focus on Hiiro right now considering that comment was... yknow said to him. I just think we should actually be talking about the Amagis considering that comment was intended to discuss the Amagis and their culture and the discrimination they go through.

i had someone ask me a similar question once but not in the context of all thats happening currently so you can read that here if youre inclined

buuuut what made me like aira so much in the first place was honestly that his concept as a character is really funny. i made a post a long while back that went into the funny meta jokes that you could make using aira as a character before i really knew much about enstars at all. having a character in your idol series that loves idols and canonically reads fanfic about them is just a funny concept in general. and as i continued to read more he continued to be funny and annoying and endearing (his little mini interaction with midori comes to mind immediately. there is something wrong with him)

also i tend to gravitate towards characters that give me like. little sibling energy. i love having a favorite little guy to dote on

but afterwards what really drew me to him was the main story!! thermometry specifically comes to mind (ouuugh,,,,). his feature scout stories are also great and so is feather touch! i wont like. go into detail really cause my blog is covered in me talking about aira already

his dynamic with hiiro is one of my favorites too, especially in mainstory. their dynamic isnt JUST aira says shitty things to hiiro and thats it. their relationship develops really far to the point where aira admits that he needs hiiro as much as hiiro needs him. they're young and inexperienced and kind of codependent as they're trying to keep themselves from going under in a sort of cutthroat industry. i think thats really neat. their relationship is really sweet to me and aira is a great tsundere type of character. he regularly is shown to actually like hiiro a lot as mean as he can be to him sometimes i.e. here. and you know the whole holding hands thing (which they also fucked up in the climax story but Whatever)

theres also this. which i think about regularly. the hiiai shipping fuel is vast

and additionally i think aira has some really great relationships with other characters too, alkaloid especially. feather touch develops his relationship with tatsumi a lot and its one of my favorite aira moments. i couldnt find my screenshots for this one but basically aira gives tatsumi his unlocked phone (something VERY important to aira since hes a little screenager) and it shows tatsumi just how much aira trusts him and he realizes how important aira is as a friend to him. being someone with a history like him aira's friendship is sort of new to him and it helps them both grow

he loves his friends so so much and he’s had a positive impact on all of alkaloid. he is its heart after all

but in any case i'm not going to like, defend myself for liking aira. i am aware that the shitty stuff has been there from the start but i've said something similar in the past that was like. aira isn't real and he cannot take accountability for what he says. he's a character written by real people who doesn't have any control over how he acts. so i guess that's why when i think the writers write something i dont think he would do or say in my own personal aira opinion i can sort of brush it off as just bad writing.

and not in the sense that i dont recognize that enstars sucks, because it does. enstars can be terribly racist sometimes and not just when concerning aira, and thats important to talk about (i.e. the orient cards, the king of thieves cards, etc). but at the end of the day the most important thing to recognize is the people and company behind the game as well as the real people who play the game and are affected by it. and not like, the specific characters in the game. cause they didn't actually do anything or feel anything you know